Anaiyah woke up Jean Baptiste because forgot to start the recording. The following are from Jackline’s notes prior to recording:
Jackline: I frequently see myself judging other people. How can I accept and love the differences rather than judge?
Anaiyah: Are your judgments without your consent?
Jackline: Yes.
Anaiyah: They are an old recording stored in your body. You can look on it as a reminder as to what you’ve done. It wants to be helpful to you. What you’ve been doing is opposing your own judgments. If you don’t oppose your judgments, you can treat them like a burp or a fart that needs to be expressed. Don’t linger. Then you can move your attention to something beautiful or something you appreciate or that empowers you.
Recording starts:
ANAIYAH: He can be quite forgetful sometimes.
JACKLINE: Laughs heartily.
ANAIYAH: Will you remember what we have expressed?
JACKLINE: Oh, absolutely. I’m a note taker. I can tell you just what was expressed. Thank you. The next question I have is sort of related to that but in reverse. And it’s a big question. It’s bigger… it’s more important for me to get through this even than the first question. I started with the little one.
ANAIYAH: How big is that?
JACKLINE: Well this is not the biggest one. The third one– I have three, and the third one is the biggest. But this one is really important. And I think I want to do it in this order as a progression.
ANAIYAH: Okay.
JACKLINE: The second thing I’ve been working on, really for a long time, but it’s still a painful matter. I want to trust myself, rather than be concerned what others think of me. And I see myself. This is… this is not all old, I don’t believe. This is not all historical, but it is in the body. And I want to… not… I can be a chameleon.. I can change shapes. I give myself away, so that people will like me, so that I will get that reflection.
And I know the trauma. Well, I think we’re all taught this way. We in this culture anyway, in this Western culture. But when there’s trauma and one doubts oneself and doesn’t have trust, then one may be concerned about what others think or how they respond. And I don’t want to say, “Well, I don’t care how they respond. Ah, you know I trust myself.” I want to say that they’re important too, and how they respond is important, but it doesn’t affect the trust in me. I want to do this with love, and not opposition.
So, the expression is that I’m really careful how I say things. And I’ve learned how to say things, and that’s good. My skills are really good. I don’t regret the skills, and I don’t regret my abilities in how I deal with people because they do respond well to me. I rarely get negative responses. But I’m working very hard at creating the impression that I want to create to get the response that I want. And I don’t want to do this anymore. It’s too tiring.
ANAIYAH: Give me an example.
JACKLINE: Umm…Sometimes when I want to speak or say something. I don’t express it in..in the way my being would express it. I… sometimes I don’t express it at all. And sometimes I’ll… well, it’s a skill. I’ll say it in a way that the other person can hear.. which is good, but I know it’s because I want them to like me.
ANAIYAH: And why do you want them to like you?
JACKLINE: Aha. Aha. Laughs.
ANAIYAH: What is there not to like about you?
JACKLINE: That brings something up because it’s a twofold thing. I want to connect with them. I want to love them. I want that mutual connection. But that…that is not the main motivation. The main motivation is that I fear that if they don’t like me, it will diminish me.
ANAIYAH: But let me tell you something. If you adjust yourself, your expression for other people to like what they see, they won’t like you. They will like that image that you have created that is not you.
JACKLINE: Aghh… I’m lying to myself then.
ANAIYAH: In a manner of speaking, you are trying to… Let me ask you again, what is there not to like about you?
JACKLINE: Well, really nothing! Laughs.
ANAIYAH: Laughs… Exactly.
JACKLINE: I’m quite likable. I’m quite likable. I mean, but not everybody would like me in a particular moment. And not everybody would like me in many moments.
ANAIYAH: Is that important that everybody would like you?
JACKLINE: That seems to be the case. Yeah… pretty important. Because I believe at some level that it reflects on my value. I know…I used to believe, Well, I’m deserving. I just don’t know why other people keep betraying me or keep doing things against me or leave me or abandon me. And then I say, I know I’m deserving, but I realize that if I believe that their response affects my reality and my choice, then obviously there’s a part of me that believes I’m not deserving or worthy. But I do. It’s a conflict.
ANAIYAH: Yes. And an interesting ball of yarn.
JACKLINE: Laughs. I have to untangle it, huh?
ANAIYAH: Yes. And it ties nicely with the first question actually –about the judgments. Because you fear that if people see you as you are or as you want to express in a particular moment, they won’t like you… they will judge you. And you have the impression that the judgment creates some kind of disconnection. And…
JACKLINE: And also I believe at some level that it reflects on my value. I don’t want to believe that, but I think it may.
ANAIYAH: And let me ask you another question of importance. What is more empowering to you? Expressing what you want to express or camouflaging it to get a response that is not talking about your value but about the value of an image of yourself that has been beautified in what you think would be liked.
JACKLINE: Yeah, and I’m so good at it. Laughs.
ANAIYAH: Let me tell you that beauty is a tricky thing. You may think that there is some kind of external beauty standard, but some people may find beauty without personality quite dull and uninteresting. What interests you or what interests other people is the asperities, the little bumps, the spikes or the scratches that tell stories. If it’s too beautiful, it doesn’t necessarily tell a story. It doesn’t trigger curiosity. It doesn’t engage, because some people see beauty as something inaccessible. And if it’s too perfect, what is there to say about it? What is there to share? What is there to love about? You often create bonding or communities around misadventures and challenges, and find beauty in the most unexpected situations. Beauty is not necessarily… Yes…
JACKLINE: Okay. Beauty is one of the most important things to me, and I see it everywhere. But this question I have is… and I just feel like I want to cry a little.. when someone does not see my beauty… When someone… I don’t mean a physical form beauty, but when someone does not see me as beautiful, then that somehow makes me doubt myself. And I know, I know that beauty is tricky, and it’s different for everyone. And it’s different in one moment than another, but it doesn’t change my doubt.
ANAIYAH: Let me give you an example. If you go in nature and you meet an animal like a rabbit or a deer, they will be most likely afraid of you. And they will run away as soon as they see or smell you. If you meet with a lion or a tiger, they may see you as appetizing. You have a kind of beauty to them… beauty for their taste buds. And they want to taste you, but not necessarily in a way that will please you, that you will find comfortable. Different people have different filters, different interests, different leanings into their energy. And they will naturally gravitate towards certain qualities or certain expressions. And some other qualities or expressions will naturally repulse them. They will avoid them.
JACKLINE: So, I hear what you say, and in answer to a question you asked before.. It would be more empowering to me to express who I am rather than create a camouflage image that is beautified.
ANAIYAH: Yes, because you said you wanted to accept differences. But if you don’t accept your difference… you want to be pleasing to some image that other people might have of you… you don’t accept your difference.
JACKLINE: My difference between what they want and who I am you mean?
ANAIYAH: Your difference between what you think they expect of you and what you are.
Your difference between you and them. And then…
JACKLINE: Okay. So how do I approach that? I hear you. I agree with you. I have not been accepting that who I…
ANAIYAH: How you may approach that is… What is pleasing to you? [It] is the beauty you see in the world, in other people, and in yourself. You may validate your own beauty, the beauty that you see in the other person, and the beauty you see in the world around you. And just express that beauty in whatever way, through whatever means of expression presents itself in this moment… in that moment… in that interaction.
JACKLINE: Okay.
ANAIYAH: And you are the one appreciating the beauty. You are that aspect of consciousness geared toward appreciating beauty. And you appreciating your beauty… validating it by not camouflaging it or by not transforming it to please others is what will be expressed in energy… is what will be shared with the other person. If you think your natural beauty is not something worth sharing as it is, that is what you are sharing: ‘I need to change myself to be accepted’. Because you don’t accept who you are as you are, as something worthy.
And I’m not speaking here about you wanting to add some adornments to your expression, like putting on a necklace or an accessory… putting flowers in your hair or makeup on your face. You can even want to put makeup to disguise yourself as a leopard, if you want, because you see the beauty of the leopard.
JACKLINE: I missed a word there. Are you saying that I can adorn myself if I wish. Just to help myself make that expression.
ANAIYAH: Yes. Not because you want to be accepted or because you want to be liked, but because you like this expression. This adornment is what is enhancing your beauty. It is not camouflaging it. That’s the difference you are looking for. You don’t want to camouflage yourself. You want to enhance who you are.
JACKLINE: Okay. I got it. I got it, Anaiyah. The way that I can focus and not be afraid to express who I am is… for me what works is focusing on the beauty that I know I am. The gift that I know I am.
ANAIYAH: Yes.
JACKLINE: The love that I know I have, and then live it.
ANAIYAH: Feel it. Express it. Be it. And that will be expressed and translated into appreciation in whatever the other person will be able to appreciate in that moment.
JACKLINE: And the other person may run away like a rabbit.
ANAIYAH: Yes, because too much beauty might be frightening.
JACKLINE: Laughs. Oh, I love that. Okay. Yeah. And also I’m aware that it depends on the moment: what they are processing, what they’re going through, and what they’re able to deal with.
ANAIYAH: Yes… or their own response or their own expression may not be related to you.
JACKLINE: Right. Now I know that, but in the past, I would take it personally. Well, I mean, I know not to take it personally. I know that. But depending on the relationship particularly if it’s an intimate relationship with a lover or a boyfriend, and then I feel rejected when I have already expressed and exposed who I am to this person. And they say, Well, you know, you’re a wonderful person, but you really don’t meet my need. And it’s painful. And how do I get through that pain of being rejected? The sense of being rejected?
ANAIYAH: Are you speaking from a situation during which you were trying to change who you are to please the other person?
JACKLINE: In part, and in part where I did become vulnerable, and it wasn’t what was desired. So this question, the second question has different levels. And we’ve answered the first level, which is in general and how I am with people in general and with more not really close relationships. But when it becomes a vulnerable relationship and one where there’s a love affair and a rejection, that becomes painful. And all kinds of emotional responses come up that I look on.. I try to see that they’re little signals, but when one is rejected…
ANAIYAH: Are you speaking about a particular relationship?
JACKLINE: I am. I am specifically, but let me say this has been a pattern. This is a pattern all of my life… one after the other, after the other, after the other. Excepting for one which was… and what happens….
ANAIYAH: And in those relationships were you in the direction of pleasing the other person?
JACKLINE: I would say, half of the time, yes, and they were happy about that. Laughs. And half of the time. I would be vulnerable and reveal myself and be natural. And at the end, it was not… it wasn’t that I wasn’t liked. It was that I wasn’t in their mind enough to meet what their need was. Or there was lying and betraying and broken promises. It varied.
But the recent one that I’m speaking of, it was a really loving sweet relationship. And after not a long time… six weeks, the person really pretty well said that this wasn’t the relationship that met his needs, so…in a physical way and probably in an emotional way, as well. And so I accepted that, and I said, that’s fine. It’s important for you to find what you need. And for me, I know what kind of relationship I need. So we went our separate ways. But the sense of rejection or not being pleasing or not having my beauty be recognized as awesome and amazing was very disheartening. Is disheartening… it continues to be. It’s pretty fresh. It’s only been a couple of weeks that this has happened, and it’s… I’m still processing.
ANAIYAH: I understand. It can be quite affecting when you put your heart in the hands of others.
JACKLINE: Oh, I love the way you put that… Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that’s really the truth. But it shouldn’t be. It shouldn’t be disheartening. It shouldn’t be so affecting, because… because I understand who I am, and I understand differences, and that people need differences..
ANAIYAH: But understanding…
JACKLINE: Say that again.
ANAIYAH: Understanding it intellectually is not the same as living it. And understanding that people have different affections, that people have different preferences, that you each create your own realities, it doesn’t make it less…
JACKLINE: I know… Oh, I know.
ANAIYAH: hurtful when you generate that situation of putting yourself, putting your own power, your own value in the hands of… in the intellect of other people.
JACKLINE: Okay, okay, okay. So that’s what life is. Understanding is not the same as living it. And it’ll pass. But it keeps happening. I have a pattern here.
ANAIYAH: It’s not necessarily that. Even if you understand it. It’s like…take a hammer in your hand, and hit your other hand with the hammer. You will understand that it hurts. And you will put the hammer temporarily on the side until one day you take the hammer back, and you hit your hand with it. And you know that it will hurt, but the action of doing it still hurts, even if you understand that it hurts. What occurs in the situation where you generate this kind of relationship, where you need the validation of other people, where you base your value upon what other people think or what other people say or how they behave towards you, and you take that and you make it about yourself. And because you have these ideas about yourself that you are not worthy enough, that you are not enough, that you may not be as beautiful as you think you are, that you have also had these other experiences that act like dead weight that are in a way present in your energy.
Even if you express that beauty at times in the relationship, even if you express that connection, that deep understanding, that appreciation, you may continue to fear that you will be left alone, that you won’t be enough. And when the time comes when one of you and both of you are going into separate directions for whatever reason, this is what comes to the surface just like what we talked about at the start of this conversation. The judgment, the memories of previous experiences come to the surface, and they are given as this is the reason. This is the same. This may or may not be the same, but the past experiences blend with the current experience, and in a way blind you to your own beauty, to your own value, to your own importance. And you have this association that if someone leaves you that means you are not enough or you are not worth it, and that is also what you hear when you say that you don’t meet their needs.
JACKLINE: So let me go back, because there’s something you said that hopefully if I practice will resolve it. When you said the past experiences blend with the current, and they blind me to my own beauty, so that thing is saying, it’s an old recording that’s stored in my body, my emotional memories, and trying to help me, but I’m opposing. I’m opposing my own judgment. I am thinking that it’s bad when what I’m feeling is really just little reminders from the past, and if I don’t oppose them or focus on them, they will be burped or farted out if I don’t linger on.
ANAIYAH: Yes, you can remove that extra layer, which does not mean that you may not feel hurt in that moment, because you may…depending on how you choose to see what is happening… depending on if you have given the power of judgment to the other individual.
JACKLINE: Okay.
ANAIYAH: That is what you do when you give them your heart and you lose control of it. It’s like the other individual is the one who can decide whether you are worth it, whether you have value, whether you can exist as you are.
JACKLINE: Okay. That answers it. I would never give them the power of judgment if I really remembered who I am and acknowledged my beauty. And even if I feel some emotions at the separation, I don’t have to linger on those emotions.
ANAIYAH: Yes.
JACKLINE: So at least I have something I can practice with. And I want to say these relationships that keep coming up, these are big for me… these have been part of my intent. I believe when I… My intent was for connection, but the way I’ve seen from little child on was a betrayal or a violent reaction or and always mixed with love and then rejection. And it comes from not only fear, physical fear, emotional fear, but I would call it trauma. And I’ve resolved the trauma, but those memories still arise. They still exist, and that’s okay.
ANAIYAH: And they will continue to arise. Yes.
JACKLINE: The past will always be part of the present. They have made me strong and self-confident. So I have…
ANAIYAH: And you have to remind yourself that that is from the past.
JACKLINE: Yeah, and that I’m really beautiful.
ANAIYAH: Just like sometimes you may like to listen to old music and music that will make you feel sad.
JACKLINE: Yes, yes. To feel… that’s what it is to live… to feel the emotions.. to know the richness. We have just a few minutes. Well, 13, 14 minutes left. And, I’m watching the battery on my phone, because the charger is in the other room. So there is one third question that I have, and this is the big important one.
All of my life. I’ve felt like I’ve lived in two worlds, a world of beauty and art and magnificence, and I could escape to it. And then a world of very being perfect and doing things perfectly and not being spontaneous, and making sure everything is taken care of and all the details are handled, and I have a backup plan to a backup plan.
And I can get into this subject of awareness in many ways. I’ve done time travel, and it’s like, it’s real. absolutely intense. I channel. I paint. I’m able to read people. I’ve always been sensitive to energy. And my physical objective life is quite managed. I mean, it is managed. I’m making fun of myself a little bit here. And I would like to combine these. I would like to be more spontaneous. I would like to feel more free and bring that connection between my two worlds to, if not full time, go in and out and merge them and be lighter.
And I used to worry that if I let that other world in,.. the subjective world, I’ll call it… that I would stop being responsible and accountable and doing things well. And when I channel for myself, it says, you always do things well. It’s part of your nature. It’s part of your habit. Never worry about that… if you’re spontaneous, you’re not going to pay your bills or you’re going to be irresponsible. You will always have that habit. but it just won’t be so rigid. So, I talk to myself this way, Anaiyah.
ANAIYAH: Let me ask you a question. Isn’t that the same subject that you have been expressing to of needing to adjust or change some aspect of yourself in order to conform or to please either other people or what society is expecting of you? And so, in order to live in society, you have to present that organized self, that manageable personality, manageable life, organized, proper, clean, and keep to yourself and to your close friends the other messy world of spontaneity.
JACKLINE: Let me interrupt. I love being organized. And I love having.. well, it’s part of my… I think a Sumafi nature; it’s part of what I just love having things just right. And they move all the time.
ANAIYAH: Yes, and they don’t need to oppose each other. You can be spontaneously organized.
JACKLINE: Laughs. I don’t know how to do that. I keep… they’re not opposed, but I do separate them, if that makes sense. I keep the worlds separate.
ANAIYAH: Yes. That’s why I’m telling you.
JACKLINE: I don’t want to do that anymore.
ANAIYAH: You think that you have to separate so that one cannot combine with the other, that there are two opposites when they are not. Because they are aspects of you, qualities of you. And you have the opportunity to express and explore both sides and combine them in your painting just like an artist would combine darkness and light.
Organization and spontaneity are not necessarily antagonistic. You can certainly during a travel spontaneously start organizing your day and give yourself a framework. And then you can spontaneously change. And then spontaneously you can go back to the organization. Spontaneity is not at odds with organization. Spontaneity is that aspect of you that can jump from one quality to another… the quality of organization and rules and limits to that quality of unlimited change, fluidity.
Your spontaneity can include the organization, and you can generate different types of organization. Not only the ones that you are familiar with, the ones that you feel comfortable with. You can even find the inner organization of chaos and how no matter how it appears to you everything is still interconnected. Everything will respond to your direction. You may want to have a look at these situations or these circumstances where you believe that you need some organization and those circumstances where you believe more fluidity is required. Are you understanding?
JACKLINE: Okay. Yeah, I am. And at an inner level especially when you said the inner organization of chaos, and that no matter how it appears everything is still connected and will respond to my direction.
ANAIYAH: Yes. And if you look at a hurricane, for you it’s chaos.
JACKLINE: If I look at a what?
ANAIYAH: A hurricane.
JACKLINE: Oh, a hurricane.
ANAIYAH: For you it’s chaos. It brings chaos about everywhere… destroying houses, roads, trees. But when you observe it, it has that pattern of a swirling and the movement between the different masses of air, the different masses of water, evaporating, creating that humidity in the air and the rising of the air.
JACKLINE: It is magnificent.
ANAIYAH: It is nourishing. The movement that keeps going in the same direction. But when you are into it, you see chaos, but the movement is quite organized. And if you change just one parameter, if you remove one aspect of the hurricane, it stops.
JACKLINE: Interesting. Related to this. Real quick, because we have two minutes.
ANAIYAH: Okay.
JACKLINE: And this isn’t so much of an important question. It’s just something I’ve been thinking about. In order to help me with these three areas I’m working on, would.you think it… and I have never taken any drugs in my life… nothing other than a… you know, prescribed drug or an aspirin. But do you think it would help me to accomplish this if I took MDMA ecstasy or psilocybin, a psychedelic? I think I can do it on my own, but I don’t know how many decades it’ll… I’m old. So I just wondered if you had any thought on substances to aid… for me.. not for anyone else.
ANAIYAH: It will depend on… Yes. If you keep it to the the fun and not introduce expectations to the mix about what it should bring you or how it should bring it to you, because it will help you loosen your grasp about some aspects of rigidity or organization. It can also help you, depending on the substance that you will use, help you see different types of organization…that even in spontaneity there is a form of organization. That even in what seems to be random hallucinations or random patterns you still have an organization. And allow… allow whatever you bring to yourself to pass through and not linger on the judgments that may arise during your experience or afterwards.
JACKLINE: Okay. Thank you. The beeper went off. And you have helped me immensely.
ANAIYAH: Very well. I am so pleased to speak to you. Enjoy your life. Enjoy your experiences. And you can play with your different aspects of spontaneity, fluidity, organization, and recognize when they are empowering you and how they are empowering you in any moment. Because in any moment both of those aspects are expressed in some manner in yourself and around you. Just pay attention to that.
JACKLINE: Thank you.
ANAIYAH: In the meantime. I will continue to engage you non-physically.
JACKLINE: Oh yes. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Yay!
ANAIYAH: And maybe. We will speak again. Goodbye.
